Haymarket's Police Force Is Dwindling

The motion (which first failed when Bob Weir tried it) was to suspend the program, not terminate it forever. The Council wanted to get a better understanding of the program, the scheduling, how it operated and tasked the chief to provide that info.

Chief has now said it will take 3 months to provide that info to Councill; in efect, he is the one who has terminated the program for now, since he cannot justify it's operation or need. Which, as pointed out elsewhere on this site, seems a bit weird.

The news articles I have read, indicate that Tobias wants the program back sooner rather than later. Guess the Chief is holding things up for a bit to make some on Council look bad.

EDITED TO ADD MEETING MINUTES:

Weir motions to suspend the Haymarket Police Department Reserve Officer Program, pending a thorough review of the organization and the polices of the unit, effective immediately, Sikorsky seconds;
Weir withdraws motion

Tobias motions to suspend the reserve officer program indefinitely, and to task the Chief to provide a written report to council by February 28, 2006 detailing his recommendations for the necessity and professional operation of a reserve officer program, Cole seconds;
Tobias-Yes, Sikorsky, Cole-Yes, Garcia-Yes, Jarboe-Yes, Weir-Yes

Now I am lost?

Voice, in one of your previous post you mention that you were a marine so I am not sure if you are associated with x1 or not even though I believe so. I assume you live in the town. You have lost most of your police department, why would you not want FREE police protection when the town is not covered with police officers on weekends and certain evenings?

To condense your previous posting, You like having a Chief who admitted to only working 2 days a week, a Sgt. who only works am - 2pm M- F, and 1 other officer until last week for police protection in your town?

-CTP

Just so you know for the record, it was Jay Tobias that motioned for the suspension of the program, and also voted to get rid of it.

Jay is a good guy, but has sometimes had some questionable views when it came to police matters. Especially when it came to the whole sexual harassment issues brought forward by Hoffman. He should have abstained himself from the whole matter. Because of an alleged scandal between Jay and a clerk.

Long story short, nobody will ever know what happened, but everyone and there brother seems to have a copy of the emails that were sent by her and by him.

I know Jay personally and am willing to vowdge for him, that I do not believe he did this.

Actually, X1, there are many people who know what happened between Tobias and the former assistant clerk. Many former and current members of our government hoped you would never find out, but now you will.

The Background:

1. This complaint occurred shortly after Hoffman had filed his complaint.
2. The former mayor mishandled her complaint by being overzealous in his pursuit of a strictly third party investigation of the complaint. He wouldn’t even talk to her about the complaint himself but immediately referred it to an outside attorney to have it investigated.
3. Upon hearing about the referral of the matter to an outside attorney, the complainant was upset and went to visit Pam Stutz at her current place of employment to seek advice.
4. Pam Stutz encouraged her to follow through with her complaint and even let her know that other people’s jobs may hinge on her sticking to her guns on her complaint.
5. The complainant implored the mayor at the time to simply answer her question “Was Tobias acting on his own when he was constantly criticizing her work performance and checking her work email?" She told the mayor that she was just upset that Tobias seemed to be constantly checking her work and pointing out deficiencies.
6. After failing to receive any response from the mayor, who had by then secured the services of an attorney to investigate the complaint, the complainant refused to be interviewed and wanted the whole thing to just go away. She would later send a letter to council stating that the whole thing was a “huge mess and misunderstanding."
7. She resigned her position shortly after the complaint was filed.

The Inside:

1. Council had, in fact, directed Tobias, then the Clerk’s liaison, to seek out and document any deficiencies in the work of the assistant clerk so that they could get enough information to fire her.
2. Bob Weir constantly made accusations that the assistant clerk was leaking information to outside sources, including Dottie Leonard and Jack Kapp, and that she actively concealed information (an audio tape of a public meeting) to protect Leonard during and after the Centex rezoning. For reference, Weir at the time spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out how to remove Leonard from the boards she is on ingnoring the fact that the town attorney told him on at least three occasions that she can’t be removed for anything less than gross corruption.
3. Once a letter had been received from the complainant stating that the whole thing was “huge mess and misunderstanding" there was an attempt by the mayor at the time to re-instate Tobias as liaison to the Clerk’s office (he had been removed by the mayor as soon as the complaint was received).
4. For unstated reasons that seemed unfairly punitive and politically motivated (my opinion), the council declined to re-instate Tobias, who had then been cleared of all accusations of harrassment by the complainant.
5. Councilman Weir started making various inquiries as though he were going to try and have the town sue the complainant because the town had to spend a few dollars to investigate it and it was later withdrawn.

aLL sEEing EyE’s Analysis:

I have watched council over the years do all manner of despicable things, but this one is in the top 10. The way I see it, the initial complaint was heartfelt and truthful from someone who didn’t understand why she was being persecuted (and obviously had no idea that the persecution was at the direction of council!) The initial complaint may or may not have been encouraged by Stutz and/or Weir who both can’t stand Tobias and his constant haranguing of Roop and company. I believe that Stutz and others actively encouraged the complainant and may have misled her to keep the complaint going in order to silence Tobias in the middle of the Hoffman complaint investigation and to possibly remove him from office (with no regard to the welfare of the town). In the complainant’s letter recanting the accusation of harassment she bitterly states that she was misled by certain council members, a reference I believe to her conversations with Stutz and another unknown member(s), who had told her that Tobias was acting on his own and that her job performance was never discussed in executive sessions of council, both untrue. It appears that certain council members and police officers thought that if Tobias were to go down on a complaint that they would somehow benefit. There were other bit characters like Leonard and Roop involved, but their actions were not really of any significance to the core issue.

In the end, it caused embarrassment for the complainant, Tobias, the town, and could have resulted in a suit against the town, but the people who were really pulling the strings were never called to account. Bob never got his suit off the ground (incidentally, Bob Weir never tried to sue Roop and Breeden to recover the costs of their investigation even though they were found to have created a hostile work environment and their investigation cost 10 times that of the Tobias investigation), and the original complainant has moved to a sane workplace and is very happy.

Here is an article about the whole thing.

What else do you want to know?

Truth comes as conqueror only to those who have lost the art of receiving it as friend. - Rabindranath Tagore

Glad someone has knowledge on this matter since it has been brought up on this forum more than once in a bit of a hush-hush manner. Seemed like people wanted to bring it up but didn't really have any facts to justify or support a post.

I knew Jay last summer while all of this was going on and I can assure you he was only doing what others on Council had asked him to do but didn't have the guts to do on their own. Had he known that his peers would not have backed him up when questioned about his actions, he probably never would have done their dirty work of investigating the clerk.

Jay answered all questions asked of him about this matter by the Council, the Mayor, and the attorney. He even obtained legal counsel on his own, in case the other Council members continued to lie about their knowledge of the chain of events (something that the Town attorney suggested he do to protect himself). Fortunately for him, his attorney wasn't needed and fortunately for the Town, Jay decided not to pursue a suit against the sitting Planning Commissioner, the members of the police department, and the Town Council members that contributed to this false claim.

The clerk had left under David Taylor, and Hoffman filed his claim under Stutz. That to me appears to be a little bit of time bending on the part of Eye.

Also if a guy can not take a dirty joke and wants to claim sexual harassment, well then I feel that we need to redo the police uniforms to include pink shirts and some nice pinks hats. Because to me we must have a kinder, and gentler police force.

Glad that my life is in the hands of such a police force that will make sure that when I get pulled over for speeding, that I get out and smell the roses, maybe even prance and skip through the garden.

Can we get a little better standards for our protective force? Oh wait, it got a little better when Hoffman was fired for working in a illegal gambling establishment, that was under the home that he was guarding for the felon with the gun who was running everything.

Come on Voice - there are men and women who have higher standards for the behavior of professionals than you obviously have for them or even for yourself. To think that because a man or woman does not want to be subjected to listening to dirty jokes or dirty comments made by a superior does not mean that pink shirts and pink hats are in order. I commend those that have brought this whole police situation to our attention because if it wasn't for him/her, we residents of Haymarket, would have no idea how our police chief and his sergeant behave while ON DUTY IN OUR TOWN! There's a reason why there is sensitivity training provided to employees in corporations and government - perhaps our Mayor, Town Council and the Chief and the Sergeant need to be trained to see what is acceptable for public officials since they obviously do not see that the conduct of the Police Chief and the Sergeant is unacceptable in their professional capacity.

Your facts are a little wrong. Both happened under Taylor. It was more going on than a dirty joke. You would be suprised!

Of course, if you click on the document section of this board, it says the report is coming soon, so we all might know the real truth soon!!!

I will ask you the same thing I asked Glen, when you meet someone how are you supposed to know if they are a felon or not?

CTP

PS- You need to go back to being nice, your X1 personality is starting to show. :-)

the "facts" are more than a LITTLE wrong.

As I remember it, when there were no active patrols by Haymarket Patrol Officers, there are Prince William County Cops driving around town.

maybe driving through town, not around town. there were no police around, you can't even pretend like there was.

exactly there are prince william co. cops that patrol our streets why not let them continue and get rid of the ones that arnt doing anything to protect the town rather then having to pay them to help little old ladys get their groceries home shouldnt that be something to do out of respect instead of something to make yourself look good to the community...