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"The Haymarket Smoking Gun"

Placement of Town Hall

Town Properties

Joe Minor wrote on 2/16/06, 8:05 PM:

This exerpt is from Planning Commissioners Journal. If we move to the Sears house keep in mind that no one will drive up to the Sears house, do their town business, and then walk to nearby businesses.

Read excerpt from article:

People appreciate public buildings that express the dignity, permanence, and importance of civic institutions, and which harmonize with their surroundings. In recent years, there have been a growing number of instances where communities have demanded higher quality in the design of new public buildings and resisted efforts to move post offices, city halls, and other civic institutions to out-of-the-way locations.

Communities have also increasingly resisted the "cheaper is better" approach and demanded higher quality in the design of new public buildings. Warren County, Virginia, for example, recently resisted an effort to move its courthouse out of downtown Front Royal to a greenfield site along a highway outside of town. Instead, Warren County renovated its historic courthouse and built a beautiful, architecturally compatible addition to it.

Keeping the courthouse downtown did cost more, but Warren County officials realized that there is a big difference between cost and value. Downtown is the heart and soul of any community and the cornerstone of civic identity. A public commitment to staying downtown encourages private businesses to do the same.

By rehabilitating and expanding its existing facilities, the county helped to stabilize the downtown, increased the value of nearby properties and uses, and ensured that existing infrastructure would be used more efficiently. On the other hand, if the County had moved its offices out of downtown, private businesses would have followed. Keeping the courthouse in the core helped both the Town and the County. ...

Ok, whatever

What is council's plan??? Helloooo, anyone out there???

town hall location

it makes sense to have town hall on the new property and to sell to a developer, with conditions in place, the current town center property. the businesses that can move into the center of town and prosper...will pay back tons of dividends to the community in the form of taxes and services.

In response to Placement of Town Hall

Miller, Bob wrote on 2/19/06, 11:14 AM:

You make an excellent point in this email. Since most of the business is generally located from the center of town West and residential to the East on Rt. 55; it argues to keep Town hall where it is.

Another problem is that the Town Council has not followed through with installing the Street Scape on the north side of Rt. 55 from the corner of Pace School to Madison. That work was started four years ago by the TC at that time! Since this TC has been in office for the last two years; zero visible progress has been made on the Street Scape. This inspite of the fact that the grant money is available. Inasmuch as all of the TC is running for reelection this year; they should be held accountable on this point-particularly Bryan Garcia who was point man for the project as far as I know.

The TC was very quick, by contrast, to get the Street Scape sidewalk put in from Haymarket Station to the Corner of St. Paul drive once they found out that Dottie Leonard was in Florida for these last two months. So, if the current TC wants to do something bad enough they will get it done. Just depends on what motivates them.

Who knows what their agenda is for considering a move of Town Hall to a residential area.

Bob Miller

Inherited and Iniated by the current Town Council

What you are about to read here goes back to two former Mayor's tenure and goes to the inherited responsibility to manage or oversee by the current Town Council and Mayor's Office:

I. Current Town Hall - What you need to know is what happened to the $8600.00 and something a month revenue that was promised to the residents, in a letter to residents of the Town of Haymarket VA, from (one of) the former Mayor's Office - with respect to the acquisition of the Gossom Property:
A) Acquisition of the Gossom property
1) The "former mayor" ignored well over 50% of the residents polled and saw to it the taxpayers were to buy Gossom Property.
2) Glen Davis (May God Bless his departed soul), tenant of the Gossom Grocery store, told the residents of Haymarket VA, before it was purchased by TC (Mayor's persistent influence) that the Gossom Property (as a whole) - with respect to building code regulations - was grand fathered and was in need of $100,000s of thousands of dollars for repair(s). (Not renovation)

B) And in fact, since its acquisition of the Gossom Property - tax revenue has had to pay for the following:

1) Acquisitions of the Gossom property - Initial cost to the tax payers - approx. $1.4M

2) One tenant set forth a legal civil court motion to sue the Town of Haymarket; legal fees costs the tax payers way up in the thousands of dollars.

3) The current Town Council had the Gossom Grocery Store demolished, in its effort to comply with the building inspector's findings and the health departments' findings. It cost well over $150,000

4) Another tenant threatened to sue; in preparation for this, although it did not materialize - it costs money.

5) The Red Rooster, a historical site, and to the left of the current Town Hall is under renovation. $10s of thousands

6) A tenant apartment rental building, behind the current Town Hall building was also condemned and the tenants had to leave - it is awaiting to be scheduled to be torn down. That is, if the Town Council does not sell or has sold the current Town Hall property. Will cost $1000s

7) The lean-to has been torn down and a maintenance building (both behind the current Town Hall) is scheduled to be torn down. Cost $100s if not $1,000s

8) Replaced the roof on the Town Hall of Haymarket - $10,000s of thousands

NOTE: A little side note here to the "former mayor": Its ok Jack, we the tax payers are going to luck out - as it is, although it has cost tax payers $100,000s (and I mean $100,000s) of thousands of dollars - The good news is, that the “Gossom Property” - location of current the Town Hall - has appreciated in value. And, there were a few months that tenant revenue was earned - and there is still some $ coming in from the office space leased over the current Town Hall - but its many times $1,000s less than $8600. The tenant revenue received has never been enough to pay for maintenance, legal law fees associated with civil law suits, renovations, and demolition fees, much less has it paid the initial cost owed to Mr. Allen Gossom. And David, you were the succeedent - you inherited - from the former Mayor "Jack".

Ah now wait, there is more than "Green Space"

The Town Hall official Town Council meetings are a matter of public record, exception being specific closed session meetings that include "personnel issues". And, the minutes of those Official Town Council Meetings are archived in the Prince William County Public Library; as well as all of the official proceedings/decisions the Town Council and the various boards of the Town Hall Of Haymarket. With respect to what the person with "SkinsFan" screen name has eluded, some of those are the decision(s) of the "former Mayor".

It is a fact that any current Town Council has always had to finalize the business of a former Town Council, which includes the Mayor.

In the wake of two former mayors and town councils, the current Town Council of Haymarket has had to find, and appropriate funds for all of its and the former Town Councils’ approved projects, which include employee positions created and filled.

Lets see (just to name a few) - the current Town Council has taken the responsibility to oversee the development of:
1) Bleight Road
2) Haymarket Station (Dottie Leonard's former property, also known as Centex)
3) Joe's Italian Restaurant
4) Remax Office Building
5) The plan for development of the Payne Lane property
6) Winterham
7) The north end of Fayette Street
8) Completion of the Blum site
9) Quarles development
10) A traffic light
11) New roof on the Town Hall as well as other significant maintenance and costly items repaired and replace
12) Approved numerous building permits for private residents
13) Approved salary increases for all of its employees
14) "Street Scape" - Development of the sidewalks along Washington Street at Haymarket Station; without "Grant Money"
15) Potholes filled and street maintenance to include snow, sand, and ice removal (I said oversee, not necessarily has had to pay)
16) Acquisition of Harrover Property, and has started development plans for the new site of Town Hall and Police Department for the Town of Haymarket.
17) And of course there is the Haymarket Police Department that the TC has had to allocate and spend $100s of thousands of dollars annually to maintain and oversee.
18) Hosted a Bone Marrow Screening Drive - 102 residents volunteered and where screened - from surrounding Commonwealth of Virginia communities, Maryland communities. DoD communities, Washington DC, and of course Haymarket, VA - "God Bless each one who helped setup the Bone Marrow Screening Drive, those who where screened, and Emily Roop."

These are all-visible and have occurred during the past two years.

Now wait, there is more!

Haymarket Day was located to a location on a school parking lot and driveway that provides:
1) Safe access for vehicles and pedestrians (handicapped and mobile).
2) It is spacious for a well laid out event
3) There seems to be at least three times more room for vendors, and each vendor site allows for equal foot traffic access.
4) Plenty of room for vehicle parking.
5) The parade route afforded excellent visibility for most people.
6) Its not on a public street where cross traffic was allowed like it was on Old Carolina and Jefferson Street, which during some of the years when Haymarket Day was conducted in downtown Haymarket VA -divided the vendor display area.

Award for glenp?

Is there an award for most words typed on a website? Didn't I just read this post somewhere else on the site?

You may read it twice, its

You may read it twice, its ok.

Centex

Linda Landwehr wrote on 2/19/06, 3:05 PM:

bob, I was at the town council meeting where there was a discussion of
centex asking for their bond money back and I believe the town council
advised them of the things they needed to complete before they could get
back their bond money

One of the items that centex needed to complete was the street scape portion
of their project

So the timing you question below is a centex matter

linda

Re: Centex - RESPONSE FROM CURRENT COUNCIL MEMBER

John Cole wrote on 2/20/06, 9:02 AM:

Bob,
Linda is absolutely correct. The sidewalk installation had nothing to do with Dottie's vacation plans.

JC

Placement of Town Hall - RESPONSE FROM CURRENT COUNCIL MEMBER

Robert B. Weir wrote on 2/21/06, 12:20 PM:

A few points to add to Glenn's treastise:

1. As Mr. Miller should be aware, following through on the Street Scape is not something that can always be observed with the naked eye. With regard to continuation of the Street Scape to the eastern end of the town, it has been an ongoing project that the TC has not abandoned. As Mr. Miller has not attended a TC meeting in almost two years I find his assertions specious as they do not take into consideration easements, right of acquisition and utility relocation, all issues that must be handled prior to the laying of a single brick, considerations that he should be all too well aware of. Unfortunately his arrogance is not without precedent as I recall similar comments he made in 2004, that "newcomers and challengers to the incumbents" "don’t know how the town is run" and that it will be an "agonizing process to get them into the flow of things and understand how business is really done in the town". In the instant discussion it would appear that it is he who doesn't know how the town is now run and my position that it is run much more effectively and openly than under his stewardship.

2. Bryan has been on top of those issues from the outset and the completion of the streetscape in front of Haymarket Station and the planning for other segments could not have been accomplished without his efforts.

3. The streetscape in front of Mrs. Leonard's property was part of the site plan approved by the Town Council that Mr. Miller sat on. The decision to have Centex construct it was one made by that TC and enforced by the present one. As has been noted, the completion of that particular section came as a result of Centex's desire to collect their bonds, a release that could not be contemplated until all provisions had been addressed.

Bob Weir

More excuses...

"they do not take into consideration easements, right of acquisition and utility relocation, all issues that must be handled prior to the laying of a single brick" is simply a way to gloss over the glaring reality that no progress has been made in TWO YEARS or MORE...Centex can get easements and get utilities moved, why can't the town? Has the town even obtained all the necessary easements from the property owners on Washington? My guess is NO.

town hall location/Centex

Centex has a reason to motivate to obtain easements and such...the council withheld permits until sidewalk work was near completion.
If you had occupancy permits being held over your head, preventing you from selling $525k homes...you'd motivate too.

those centex homes are so

those centex homes are so fugly.